DV & DVCam Tape Differences

Bone Machine · 3 August 2006, 12:46

Since DVCam can be recorded to regular DV tapes whats the benefit of buying DVCam tapes over DV tapes? The only difference I can see is in the price and the fancy box you get with a DVCam tape! Surely there must be a good reason for the price difference? Is there some extra reliabilty or are we just being ripped off?

Cian McGarrigle · 3 August 2006, 13:00

Quality is supposedly better on DVcam as opposed to DV. I presume this applies to the DVcam tapes too.

I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference to be honest.

Bone Machine · 3 August 2006, 13:21

Rather than actual picture quality its the DVCam formats durability, stability with insert editing and avoiding dropouts that outdoes regular DV. However, just to clarify, its the difference between the actual tapes types we purchase I'm talking about, not the differences between the recording of the DV/DVCam formats. Cheers!

Jason Butler · 3 August 2006, 13:28

Found this online somewhere:
"What's the difference between DV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO?
Not a lot! The basic video encoding algorithm is the same between all three formats. DV uses 10 micron tracks in SP recording mode. Sony's DVCAM professional format increases the track pitch to 15 microns (at the loss of recording time) to improve tape interchange and increase the robustness and reliability of insert editing."

Also I thought that DVCAM tapes came in two physical sizes?

That said there are lots of different quality DV or DVCAM tapes and supposedly they do make a difference. Back in the day you could make a Hi8 tape out of a much cheaper video8 tape by punching some holes in the case. I did this myself. So the camera recorded Hi8 but the tapes would be more liable to noise and wearing out. And so probably wasn't such a good idea but money was tight...

Note how there's only a certain type of tape that is really reccommended for HDV even though you could use any old DV tape.
This stuff starts to get very geeky very quickly, it's all evaporated metal particles 23% improvement etc...

I think you can either believe all the tapes are essentially the same. Or the real expensive Master Pro tapes are really loads better and worth being double the price.

Bone Machine · 3 August 2006, 14:14

Indeed the difference is the track width which leads to DVCam's benefits, but these are the properties of the DVCam format rather than the physical properties of a DVCam tape. You're right on two sizes, S-Format (durations: 32, 40mins) and L-Format (durations: 64, 124, 184mins). Small-Format used in cameras & decks, Large-format used in decks only (as far as I know). Though nearly all the major tape types have S and L formats. The higher-end DVCam tapes have gotta be better for recording DVCam alright, just wanna know if the benefits are worth forking out extra cash for. I can understand the use of a specific HDV tape as its quite a different format to DV, but DV/DVCam are so similar surely the difference is small. Purchasing multiple DVCam tapes would work out a lot more expensive than multiple Mini-Dv's for example.

blade · 3 August 2006, 19:14

Beware buying cheap mini DV tapes. Dont risk your production just to save a few quid cos ya can never know when a "bad tape" problem will occur, when it happens it always ends in tears.

My recommendation would be the D&P office in Terenure for the full-on quality HDV tapes at 16euro each b4 VAT. ( 90% more reliable apparently). i've yet to see a problem with one so far.

Davidian · 4 August 2006, 10:29

As far as I understand it, the actual magnetic tape in both is the same. Only the build quality of the DVCAM branded tapes is better. Best thing is to only record DVCAM or HDV and only use the tapes once with as little shuttling as possible. HDV branded tapes are just a scam. Have recorded 1000s of hours of HDV on miniDV branded tapes with zero dropout.

D

Brian · 11 September 2006, 13:23

I've never met anyone who uses miniDV for DVCAM who has had a problem with that method. Tape problems don't occur all that often anymore, but as with everything in film: if you're not sure, don't take the risk.

paul madden · 8 December 2006, 06:26

There's a great book in the rathmines library (god knows i cant remember the name, for the life of me) that covers the differences between dv,dvcam, and digi, in intricate, easy to understand, jibba jabba. It also gives a breakdown cameras at the back (though its not completely up to date, its not too far off)

sixgun · 8 December 2006, 11:15

This is not related to quality or the encoding method of tapes, but as far as I remember different manufacturers use different types of coatings on thier tapes. So if you are constantly changing the brand you use it can to lead to head problems. Sorry I cant remember the specifics.

3 August 2006, 12:46	#1
Bone Machine Editor Dublin Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28	DV & DVCam Tape Differences Since DVCam can be recorded to regular DV tapes whats the benefit of buying DVCam tapes over DV tapes? The only difference I can see is in the price and the fancy box you get with a DVCam tape! Surely there must be a good reason for the price difference? Is there some extra reliabilty or are we just being ripped off? __________________ Bone Machine

3 August 2006, 13:21	#3
Bone Machine Editor Dublin Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28	Rather than actual picture quality its the DVCam formats durability, stability with insert editing and avoiding dropouts that outdoes regular DV. However, just to clarify, its the difference between the actual tapes types we purchase I'm talking about, not the differences between the recording of the DV/DVCam formats. Cheers! __________________ Bone Machine

3 August 2006, 13:28	#4
Jason Butler Administrator Writer / Director Dublin City Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,432	Found this online somewhere: "What's the difference between DV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO? Not a lot! The basic video encoding algorithm is the same between all three formats. DV uses 10 micron tracks in SP recording mode. Sony's DVCAM professional format increases the track pitch to 15 microns (at the loss of recording time) to improve tape interchange and increase the robustness and reliability of insert editing." Also I thought that DVCAM tapes came in two physical sizes? That said there are lots of different quality DV or DVCAM tapes and supposedly they do make a difference. Back in the day you could make a Hi8 tape out of a much cheaper video8 tape by punching some holes in the case. I did this myself. So the camera recorded Hi8 but the tapes would be more liable to noise and wearing out. And so probably wasn't such a good idea but money was tight... Note how there's only a certain type of tape that is really reccommended for HDV even though you could use any old DV tape. This stuff starts to get very geeky very quickly, it's all evaporated metal particles 23% improvement etc... I think you can either believe all the tapes are essentially the same. Or the real expensive Master Pro tapes are really loads better and worth being double the price. __________________ Watch BUTCHERS on RTÉ Storyland www.tuftybear.com for trailer and other info my short film TUFTY My FilmmakersNetwork.ie profile

3 August 2006, 14:14	#5
Bone Machine Editor Dublin Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28	Indeed the difference is the track width which leads to DVCam's benefits, but these are the properties of the DVCam format rather than the physical properties of a DVCam tape. You're right on two sizes, S-Format (durations: 32, 40mins) and L-Format (durations: 64, 124, 184mins). Small-Format used in cameras & decks, Large-format used in decks only (as far as I know). Though nearly all the major tape types have S and L formats. The higher-end DVCam tapes have gotta be better for recording DVCam alright, just wanna know if the benefits are worth forking out extra cash for. I can understand the use of a specific HDV tape as its quite a different format to DV, but DV/DVCam are so similar surely the difference is small. Purchasing multiple DVCam tapes would work out a lot more expensive than multiple Mini-Dv's for example. __________________ Bone Machine

8 December 2006, 11:15	#10
sixgun Director/ VFX / Tech Dublin City Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 425	This is not related to quality or the encoding method of tapes, but as far as I remember different manufacturers use different types of coatings on thier tapes. So if you are constantly changing the brand you use it can to lead to head problems. Sorry I cant remember the specifics. __________________ My Vimeo Profile My Flickr You think that's somethin? Wait til I put my shoes on.

3 August 2006, 13:00	#2
Cian McGarrigle Writer/Director Dublin City Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 641	Quality is supposedly better on DVcam as opposed to DV. I presume this applies to the DVcam tapes too. I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference to be honest.

3 August 2006, 19:14	#6
blade .... .... Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 25	Beware buying cheap mini DV tapes. Dont risk your production just to save a few quid cos ya can never know when a "bad tape" problem will occur, when it happens it always ends in tears. My recommendation would be the D&P office in Terenure for the full-on quality HDV tapes at 16euro each b4 VAT. ( 90% more reliable apparently). i've yet to see a problem with one so far.

4 August 2006, 10:29	#7
Davidian Producer/Director Dublin City Centre Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 181	As far as I understand it, the actual magnetic tape in both is the same. Only the build quality of the DVCAM branded tapes is better. Best thing is to only record DVCAM or HDV and only use the tapes once with as little shuttling as possible. HDV branded tapes are just a scam. Have recorded 1000s of hours of HDV on miniDV branded tapes with zero dropout. D

11 September 2006, 13:23	#8
Brian Producer Dublin City Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 749	I've never met anyone who uses miniDV for DVCAM who has had a problem with that method. Tape problems don't occur all that often anymore, but as with everything in film: if you're not sure, don't take the risk.

8 December 2006, 06:26	#9
paul madden - Wexford Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 97	There's a great book in the rathmines library (god knows i cant remember the name, for the life of me) that covers the differences between dv,dvcam, and digi, in intricate, easy to understand, jibba jabba. It also gives a breakdown cameras at the back (though its not completely up to date, its not too far off)

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